Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

[RatherBeUnknown]

(vitamin b5 is supposed to upregulate 5alpha reductase or something).

so increased hair-loss?

Hair loss from B5 is a side-effect in some but it's most likely caused by a B5-induced biotin deficiency and not hormonal.

[ofonorow]

Zarfas, why not read the 3 page Leung paper? Then you would understand that ketosis is an unnatural, or at least expensive or wasteful fat burning state. One can starve themselves for as long as they like, so long as they have fat stores - and sufficient B5 to make Coenzyme A - and the body will efficiently burn fat - AND NOT GO INTO KETOSIS. This is the brilliance behind Leung's theory. I keep saying it because if you are on a low-carb diet, low calorie diet, and you enter Ketosis - this indicates a B5 deficiency.

And to everyone else, I appreciate the report of "side effects" taking higher doses of B5... (And unless there are pure powders, some may be due to the fillers or elevated calcium.) But johnyascorbate's case is interesting! (And reminds me of people who use coffee to fall asleep. We are all different.)

I have already lost 4 inches around my waist.

That's amazing. How long have you been on B5, how many calories would you say you are consuming per day, and how long will it take you to hit your target weight?

I started Pantethine around July 23rd. (I made a post in the testosterone topic. I said I felt like a 20-year old the next morning.) However, until the "butt pucks" are ready, I don't have a good calorie count. I started with 2-3 days of fasting, which turned out to be easy (because Leung mentioned that most people go into ketosis after 2-3 days of fasting. I was trying to jump start the fat burning process) , but social obligations have interfered so I don't really consider myself to be on a calorie restriction yet. Once the stomach is stretched..sigh.. The people in the study are apparently losing what Leung reported. He said about 2 lbs per week. There is an increase in water weight (as you must keep hydrated burning fat) but our clothes are not fitting and people have already commented that I have seemed to have lost weight. Less than one month. We have a prototype online study tool, so I can monitor the progress - weight loss is occurring, and it is slow and steady. My target weight (when I was in the Air Force is 50 lbs less than I am now, so 25 weeks (if only 2 lbs per week) or 6 months. Something tells me that when I begin restricting calories - it will only require 4 months. No one has reported any side effects.

I was on pantothenic acid for a short while and had some great benefits but ran into some problems early on. I encountered this same problem while attempting high dose niacinamide. This may sound weird but my body holds on to Riboflavin from the B Complex for much longer than it has any business doing, regardless of how much water I drink. I could drink 2 gallons of water and my urine is still yellow from the B2. Without taking B3 or B5, my urine does get yellow from the B2 in the complex, but a few hours later it will become diluted, which is normal. I did ask Johnwen, and he said the amount of riboflavin I'm receiving is very high and poorly excreted through the urine. I understand that, but without taking B2 or B5 my urine is normal a few hours later. I also have mild gastro symptoms on the B5 and B3. Because of these two symptoms, I am no longer taking B5, which sucks because I know I'm missing out on some benefits- but I don't feel good. I don't know if something is wrong with kidneys(there is not) or why the extra high dose of either B5 or B3 is for some reason keeping the B2 in the body. I tried switching to pantethine, but ran into the same problem. I know I could stop taking the B complex/Multi to avoid the urine problem, but I shouldn't have to deprive my body of the B vitamins.

I don't mean to hijack to topic, but this does relate to my B5 experience, and B5 is side effect free in just about everyone except me.
Owen, does this happen to you? Are you peeing yellow from the B2 in the Complex/Multi all day while taking the high dose B5?
If Johnwen or eDoc have any more suggestions, I'm open to anything.

First, if you decide to try NOW foods Conenzyme A, I would appreciate a report on what happens to your urine and whether you have the same gastro problems. (Studying the absorption pattern of a CoA supplement is on my "list" and you have a unique way of evaluating whether there is value in the complete conenzyme.)

Now if the urine is yellow, doesn't that mean that you are spilling B3 - riboflavin? Or that without B3/B5, your body holds on to B2? Not being an expert in the B complex - well named - and after reading Leung, (before his CoA explanation, it was noticed that increasing B vitamins (maybe B12 and B6) sometimes made acne worse!) I think you should provide what the body needs in ample amounts. Leung's explanation was that these other 2 B vitamins could start metabolic functions that used up the available B5 - creating the symptom of acne. We often read that you should take the B-vitamins in combination, as a complex, rather than alone. And if you do have some special genetic anomaly, most of genetic syndromes that I am aware of require more, not less, of certain vitamins. So spilling B2 would indicate to me (since you have a visual cue) to take more B2 - but also increase Niacin and B5 (and make sure B6 and B12 and biotin are also in good supply). As far as the gastro upset - maybe some kind of enteric coated B-complex?

[johnyascorbate]

So spilling B2 would indicate to me (since you have a visual cue) to take more B2 - but also increase Niacin and B5 (and make sure B6 and B12 and biotin are also in good supply). As far as the gastro upset - maybe some kind of enteric coated B-complex?

Thanks for the input, Owen.
My body is holding onto B2-riboflavin- for well over 24 hours- regardless of how much I drink only when I am taking high dose B5 OR high dose B3. When I take a normal B-complex and multi-vitamin, like I do everyday, without the high dose B5 or B3, I do not experience the holding on of the B2- yellow urine all day. Nor do I have the mild gastro problems. For these reasons I can't continue to take B5. My body should not be holding onto the riboflavin for that long, and since I don't know why it is happening, and this does not appear to be a normal complaint, I cannot say that what is causing this is a good or bad thing to my body and health.

[confused1]

How do you know your body is holding onto riboflavin? Not doubting you, just curious how one determines that.

[johnyascorbate]

How do you know your body is holding onto riboflavin? Not doubting you, just curious how one determines that.

From the color of my urine that riboflavin produces. As I have said, normally B2 passes through me in a matter of hours, but on B5 or B3, that is not the case at all.

[ofonorow]

The answer is the color of the urine... Which, by the way, also becomes dark and yellow under conditions of dehydration. I don't understand where the B2 is coming from to keep your urine yellow "all day"? Something does not compute.

Lets assume the yellow is from B2 in the urine, which means it is B2 in the blood, or that the tissues/cells rapidly start expelling their stores of B2 into the blood stream. Apparently the later. Something triggers a massive release of vitamin B2 from your cells - but only when? After you take high dose B5 and/or B3?

We know that fast release of Niacin triggers a massive release of histamine.. Leading to the flush (which Hoffer convinces us is not harmful).

Yet a slower, timed release of Niacon does not initiate the flush.

What if the B2 is doing a job it cannot otherwise do (without more B3/B5? Something like glutathione. In any event, it means that to take higher amounts of B5/B3, you personally probably require higher amounts of B2.

And the other suggestion is, like vitamin C, to take smaller amounts of B5 and timed release B3, more frequently to perhaps mitigate the B2 dumping.

And drink a LOT of water.

[johnyascorbate]

What if the B2 is doing a job it cannot otherwise do (without more B3/B5? Something like glutathione. In any event, it means that to take higher amounts of B5/B3, you personally probably require higher amounts of B2.

And the other suggestion is, like vitamin C, to take smaller amounts of B5 and timed release B3, more frequently to perhaps mitigate the B2 dumping.

And drink a LOT of water.

The color of my urine in clearly from the riboflavin and not dehydration. I still don't really understand why large doses of these two vitamins has this affect on my body ridding itself of riboflavin. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking more riboflavin in the event, like you are saying, that my body needs more riboflavin and that is why it is holding onto it which is why I am slowly peeing it out all day. I appreciate the help, Owen. I may have to talk to my alternative MD about this, because it is a little puzzling.

[ofonorow]

I don't have the time - but the answer, like almost everything else, might be found in the old medical research. Google scholar may reveal something. If there are no other symptoms, I'm not sure why you would be afraid of the dumping.

[confused1]

I've been taking 3 grams a day pantethine and I have noticed crystal clear vision within just a week. I'm 53 and normally need reading glasses but suddenly I noticed I could see the tiniest print up close without them. It startled me at first and I didn't connect it to b 5 but I think I read of others experiencing this on this forum. I couldn't find anything on the internet about it. Am I correct that others have noticed this???

[ChuckArbogast]

I've been taking 3 grams a day pantethine and I have noticed crystal clear vision within just a week. I'm 53 and normally need reading glasses but suddenly I noticed I could see the tiniest print up close without them. It startled me at first and I didn't connect it to b 5 but I think I read of others experiencing this on this forum. I couldn't find anything on the internet about it. Am I correct that others have noticed this???

Do you mind letting us know what exact item you are using?

Thanks,
Chuck

[ofonorow]

Thanks for the report confused1 - that creates another "special interest" group to be against vitamin B5 - eye doctors (I had a similar experience after my first DMSO session.. You haven't been doing DMSO too, have you?)

[confused1]

Do you mind letting us know what exact item you are using?

Thanks,
Chuck

I was using Swanson Pantethine 300mg. 3 softgels 3x/day. So actually 2,700 mg. But I ran out and just yesterday got the Now brand 600 mg. It's a little pricey at that dosage so I also got regular pantothenate, hoping I can cut the pantethine dosage in half.

[confused1]

Thanks for the report confused1 - that creates another "special interest" group to be against vitamin B5 - eye doctors (I had a similar experience after my first DMSO session.. You haven't been doing DMSO too, have you?)

Actually I have been taking 2 teaspoons DMSO orally for just about the same length of time. My wife has been taking DMSO for much longer and has not experienced this phenomenon, so I attributed it to the Pantethine, but I could be wrong.

[confused1]

Thanks for the report confused1 - that creates another "special interest" group to be against vitamin B5 - eye doctors (I had a similar experience after my first DMSO session.. You haven't been doing DMSO too, have you?)

.I could have sworn I read about vision improvement on one of these threads, was it a DMSO thread?

[ChuckArbogast]

Do you mind letting us know what exact item you are using?

Thanks,
Chuck

I was using Swanson Pantethine 300mg. 3 softgels 3x/day. So actually 2,700 mg. But I ran out and just yesterday got the Now brand 600 mg. It's a little pricey at that dosage so I also got regular pantothenate, hoping I can cut the pantethine dosage in half.

Thank you for the information!